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Post by loluke on Sept 12, 2010 6:06:25 GMT -5
I really like this guy. I'm sure many of you have watched his videos before and i would like some different opinions on he's talking about.
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Post by max on Sept 12, 2010 10:51:42 GMT -5
i think he has a good point that a lot of atheists are quick to bash Christianity but wont say anything about Islam. However, I think he is missing some critical aspects of it. Obviously in America and England, Christianity is the dominant religion. I'm sure most atheists in America have experienced being looked down upon by Christians. But when was the last time you were looked down upon by a Muslim? I'm willing to bet that has never happened because Muslims are far more oppressed in the Western world that atheists are. So as someone that advocates freedom, its really hard to try and call out these people that are being oppressed by the majority and tell them that their beliefs are stupid. Islam is also associated with Arabs usually, and Islam itself is rooted in a different culture than what we are used to, therefore its a bit ethnocentric to believe we can tell a Muslim that their beliefs are stupid.
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jimbo
jaded asshole
Posts: 1,524
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Post by jimbo on Sept 12, 2010 11:08:25 GMT -5
I agree with the dude on most points. I get really fucking sick of hearing people talk about "cultural relativism" and not judging other cultures through our own perspective, when everyone in their right mind knows thats not in the least bit possible. I agree with him that Muslim's are just as delusional as christians, but as max said, christians are not being oppressed in western society. they are the oppressors, so I am going to talk more about them and fight them with more hatred because they are the ones directly affecting my life. This is just common sense.
Islam is just as fucked as the rest of them, but people can believe whatever the fuck they want so long as it doesn't affect my freedom to not believe, and I've never come across a muslim in America who did that. I have however encountered christians that do, or at least try to, on a daily basis, my entire life.
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Post by loluke on Sept 12, 2010 11:41:28 GMT -5
Good points, infidels.
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Post by maxsilver on Nov 5, 2010 5:16:10 GMT -5
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Post by forget it on Nov 5, 2010 7:21:44 GMT -5
all dogs go to heaven
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Post by xbr00talm0shbr0x on Nov 5, 2010 10:13:05 GMT -5
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Post by rob on Nov 5, 2010 16:17:42 GMT -5
bashing christians is one of the silliest things that punx do regularly. I'm guilty of it as well, but it's a prejudice just like any other prejudice.
I'll post more about this later, but as someone that doesn't worry about religion at all, and working in a religious work environment, I have to say that the percentage of christians that are idiots about christianity is smaller than the percent of atheists that are idiots about being atheists.
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Post by brendan on Nov 5, 2010 17:23:38 GMT -5
bashing christians is one of the silliest things that punx do regularly. I'm guilty of it as well, but it's a prejudice just like any other prejudice. I'll post more about this later, but as someone that doesn't worry about religion at all, and working in a religious work environment, I have to say that the percentage of christians that are idiots about christianity is smaller than the percent of atheists that are idiots about being atheists. im with rob on this one. i think christianity is pretty silly for a lot of reasons, and that if any christian actually took the time to do some real research on the origins and development of their canon, they'd realize it's pretty silly too. that being said, i know a ton of idiot atheists who are so much worse than a lot of christians. and not all christians are tea party fundamentalist, jerry falwell disciples. i could make a more intelligent post about this, but i pulled two consecutive all-nighters working on take home exams. |
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Post by rob on Nov 5, 2010 19:51:21 GMT -5
so the school I work in is very liberal. more liberal than the public school I was in last year. but it's a christian school which I was hesitant about at first (a jobs a job the year they fire 400 teachers). Basically, I'm in a work environment that uses faith to do project based learning. My kindergarten class does friendship trays every week (bring food to people that can't get food), and every grade has some service learning project they do every week. Last week instead of a field day we cleaned and helped finish Alexander street park (the largest park inside center city), a park that my school helped fund, and is part of the alexander street low income housing.
but we pray before we eat and have a "chapel" every week (which is basically a meeting, it's in our gym).
All of this has put me in a weird place. I have never gone to church, I've never taken communion (except at a funeral once), and I know the words to no church songs. But I'm split.
I think what it comes down to is, you can be christian and understand that it's more about a path to god than it is about believing every tiny detail that's been passed down. Which is something a lot of punks don't get.
I on the other hand, and more than willing to accept that there's a chance theirs a god, but I believe scientists more than I believe preachers about the start of the world; and I think people can learn good morals without a book.
Also, talking about radical people inside religions isn't a good way to have a real discussion about atheism. It's a fucking stupid way to talk about anything pretty much.
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Post by max on Nov 5, 2010 23:04:42 GMT -5
i think as long as you arent fundamentalist about your beliefs, whatever they are, then you are good to go.
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Post by forget it on Nov 5, 2010 23:31:16 GMT -5
people who talk about religion or lack there of are worse than people who talk about politics or lack there of.
i mean seriously... who cares... knowing anything about it will not help sway the balance of either.
theres better things to concern yourself with. like titties.
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Post by brendan on Nov 6, 2010 1:21:56 GMT -5
by the way the dipshit in this video has another video condemning the islamic community center that was going to be built near ground zero.
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Post by wade on Nov 8, 2010 2:05:07 GMT -5
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Post by selfaware on Nov 8, 2010 9:23:28 GMT -5
so the school I work in is very liberal. more liberal than the public school I was in last year. but it's a christian school which I was hesitant about at first (a jobs a job the year they fire 400 teachers). Basically, I'm in a work environment that uses faith to do project based learning. My kindergarten class does friendship trays every week (bring food to people that can't get food), and every grade has some service learning project they do every week. Last week instead of a field day we cleaned and helped finish Alexander street park (the largest park inside center city), a park that my school helped fund, and is part of the alexander street low income housing. but we pray before we eat and have a "chapel" every week (which is basically a meeting, it's in our gym). All of this has put me in a weird place. I have never gone to church, I've never taken communion (except at a funeral once), and I know the words to no church songs. But I'm split. I think what it comes down to is, you can be christian and understand that it's more about a path to god than it is about believing every tiny detail that's been passed down. Which is something a lot of punks don't get. I on the other hand, and more than willing to accept that there's a chance theirs a god, but I believe scientists more than I believe preachers about the start of the world; and I think people can learn good morals without a book. Also, talking about radical people inside religions isn't a good way to have a real discussion about atheism. It's a fucking stupid way to talk about anything pretty much. I have never agreed with Rob this much. |
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Post by max on Nov 8, 2010 12:26:33 GMT -5
i used to be a fairly close-minded atheist in that i insisted that there was no god and that christians in general were stupid. i was also 15. id like to think that my beliefs have evolved as i have contemplated religion and spirituality with more interest. right now, i consider myself a fairly spiritual person: i regularly attend services at a tibetan buddhist center, a chinese/humanistic buddhist temple, and meet weekly with a group of buddhist students at my university. i try to meditate as often as possible, usually for at least a few minutes each day. my understanding of rituals/ceremonies has also evolved from thinking that they were nothing more than superstitious ignorance to an understanding that rituals, ceremonies, and practices can and do often have profound meaning for the individual practitioner that may not be obvious to an outsider.
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mike
seeker of the truth
Posts: 186
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Post by mike on Nov 9, 2010 17:26:27 GMT -5
you can be christian and understand that it's more about a path to god than it is about believing every tiny detail that's been passed down. Which is something a lot of punks don't get. I on the other hand, and more than willing to accept that there's a chance theirs a god, but I believe scientists more than I believe preachers about the start of the world |
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sam
small man, big mouth
Posts: 762 
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Post by sam on Nov 10, 2010 8:12:50 GMT -5
The issue doesn't really lie in weather god does or does not exist, it lies in the fact that the organization that supports said beliefs is entirely detrimental to our society, and humanity as a whole. I am of the opinion that organized religion should be entirely illegal. Simple as that, no symbols, no churches, personal beliefs at home is what it was meant to be and all it should be if it HAS to exist.
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Post by brendan on Nov 10, 2010 10:57:41 GMT -5
the fact that the organization that supports said beliefs is entirely detrimental to our society That would not be a fact. Even if you want to say that they do more damage than harm, religious institutions aren't entirely detrimental at all. Consider homeless shelters, soup kitchens, charitable organizations.... on a bigger scale, consider liberation theology.... while I'm only mentioning Christian institutions (because those tend to be those most under fire), all religious beliefs often manifest themselves in concrete good. Whether we like religion or not, that's pretty to silly to deny. |
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Post by forget it on Nov 10, 2010 18:05:43 GMT -5
ANARCHY!!!!
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Post by wade on Nov 11, 2010 13:42:30 GMT -5
i used to go to church, youth group all that shit. i was really involved in it and i grew up and grew out of it. i realized i was brainwashed into believing far fetched stories when i was a child. the church is a business, plain and simple. this is just speaking on christian and specifically protestant churches but its bullshit and i hate it now.
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Post by rob on Nov 11, 2010 18:35:38 GMT -5
The issue doesn't really lie in weather god does or does not exist, it lies in the fact that the organization that supports said beliefs is entirely detrimental to our society, and humanity as a whole. I am of the opinion that organized religion should be entirely illegal. Simple as that, no symbols, no churches, personal beliefs at home is what it was meant to be and all it should be if it HAS to exist. go read what I'm doing for work now and possibly reconsider. I can safely say I do more volunteer work than almost anyone on here. My school also donates considerably more money than any organization I've ever worked for. Organized religion has been used as an excuse to do a lot of bad, bad things, but that doesn't mean everyone that uses it as a path to god is doing a bad thing. It's an incredibly narrow minded point of view to think that it should be illegal. That's seriously straight up fascism, plain and simple. |
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mike
seeker of the truth
Posts: 186
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Post by mike on Nov 11, 2010 22:25:25 GMT -5
I am of the opinion that organized religion should be entirely illegal. Simple as that, no symbols, no churches, personal beliefs at home is what it was meant to be and all it should be if it HAS to exist. That's seriously straight up fascism, plain and simple. agreed. The idea of outlawing a belief system such as religion is completely ludicrous. And the idea against churches or gathering is obscene. I disagree with so many things done through religion, but I can also acknowledge the very positive things it has produced. |
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Post by brendan on Nov 12, 2010 0:34:40 GMT -5
its true of any organization or institution. people arent wholly good or bad, but to attribute all bad things to an institution is to say that people are innately bad. not the case
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Post by gigantor on Nov 14, 2010 15:50:00 GMT -5
church is a business, plain and simple. /thread |
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sam
small man, big mouth
Posts: 762
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Post by sam on Nov 15, 2010 9:32:05 GMT -5
the fact that the organization that supports said beliefs is entirely detrimental to our society Consider homeless shelters, soup kitchens, charitable organizations.... on a bigger scale, consider liberation theology.... while I'm only mentioning Christian institutions (because those tend to be those most under fire), all religious beliefs often manifest themselves in concrete good. Whether we like religion or not, that's pretty to silly to deny. I am well aware that the beliefs and texts are founded in good ol' "morality," however, like I said previous, when the institutions that make the things these religions "do" possible are corrupt then the good deeds become moot. I am also well aware that Christian and other religious organizations do "good," however, not without an underlying agenda, homeless shelters, soup kitchens, and other charitable organizations can all exist without religious influence, consider going to a soup kitchen or staying in a homeless shelter, I have done both for means of survival at one time in my life. The purpose of these branches of religious institutions are more or less simply existent so people may make this very argument. (Not to mention the amount of donations that these sub-chapters of churches tend to rake in). |
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sam
small man, big mouth
Posts: 762
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Post by sam on Nov 15, 2010 9:43:00 GMT -5
The issue doesn't really lie in weather god does or does not exist, it lies in the fact that the organization that supports said beliefs is entirely detrimental to our society, and humanity as a whole. I am of the opinion that organized religion should be entirely illegal. Simple as that, no symbols, no churches, personal beliefs at home is what it was meant to be and all it should be if it HAS to exist. go read what I'm doing for work now and possibly reconsider. I can safely say I do more volunteer work than almost anyone on here. My school also donates considerably more money than any organization I've ever worked for. Organized religion has been used as an excuse to do a lot of bad, bad things, but that doesn't mean everyone that uses it as a path to god is doing a bad thing. It's an incredibly narrow minded point of view to think that it should be illegal. That's seriously straight up fascism, plain and simple. In my personal opinion morality is a contrived notion in the first place, possibly created by these organizations to turn profits. (Nietzsche would say that the Greeks did it, but there no way to tell for sure) Call it fascism if you would like, I just see a much healthier, happier world if the institution of the church and the conception of spiritual slavery wasn't imposed upon our species. I understand that some people don't experience this, however in this general region most people do at one point or another. I was a devout Christian for 14 years, church every Sunday, the whole bit and for reasons stemming from this personal experience stems my staunch feelings on the organization, however my experience was possibly quite unique. Religion may help some people by providing them with an emotional crutch, but it seems to me that living with the constant fear over you of angering you god at this stage in my life just seems archaic to me. |
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Post by adamforbroke on Nov 17, 2010 3:22:17 GMT -5
I have to say that the percentage of christians that are idiots about christianity is smaller than the percent of atheists that are idiots about being atheists. have you been living under a rock in the bible belt this whole time? or is blind faith just not idiotic to you? |
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Post by loluke on Nov 17, 2010 6:05:36 GMT -5
I have to say that the percentage of christians that are idiots about christianity is smaller than the percent of atheists that are idiots about being atheists. have you been living under a rock in the bible belt this whole time? or is blind faith just not idiotic to you? dumm dumm head |
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Post by Tony Anus on Nov 19, 2010 14:18:34 GMT -5
The issue doesn't really lie in weather god does or does not exist, it lies in the fact that the organization that supports said beliefs is entirely detrimental to our society, and humanity as a whole. I am of the opinion that organized religion should be entirely illegal. Simple as that, no symbols, no churches, personal beliefs at home is what it was meant to be and all it should be if it HAS to exist. If you really sit down and think about what you are saying here, it is completely illogical. We are talking about religion here, something that has been around since the beginning of time. Man had ideas of religion and gods thousands of years before the idea of a language was ever even considered. I'm talking about a time period or people that would consider the idea of a cup to be beyond genius. When youre talking about an essential to peoples lives, and has been embedded in society since the beginning of time, it isn't that simple. Different influences on peoples lives lead to different interpretations on life, and what is considered to be right, wrong, and ignorant. We live in a world were practically everything is broken down to its roots of cause and effect, which isn't some new idea, and has been around just about as long as religion. With the evolution of man, there has always been the question of why and/or how. Why is always a factor in EVERYTHING, and for people religion gives that answer, that's what it has always been used as. For example, I'm positive that every person experiences a time in there life when it just seems like everything that can go wrong will go wrong, or when they feel like they are on top of the world and life couldn't get better. Some people may look at it as good or bad luck, then you have some who look to something such as religion (karma, the devil, Poseidon, whatever) as the reason why it happens, but I'm sure everyone at least asks the question why is this happening. With every question of why and/or how there is that one person who dedicates himself to find that answer and makes a career out of it, and once that answer is found then comes the next guy infatuated by it and decides to question why and/or how again. You have this constant cycle of people continuously working to expand their knowledge. That's basically how evolution is broken down, and why we have the answers that we have to some of life's greatest mysteries. Then you have to consider that for every one of those people that have a thirst for knowledge in a subject, you have a ton more that really don't give two shits, whether its because the idea or subject doesnt appeal to them, or maybe they are comfortable with the information that is available, but more than likely the thought has never and will never cross their mind. That's why people with new idea's, whether they are praised or looked down upon, are deemed deviants to society. I am a religious person, and for my own reasons, although I haven't been to church or done really anything related to religion in many years, and my interpretation of things are usually considered strange and wrong to the bulk of society. For me, everything in religion boils down to the question that will never be able to be answered, why and how are we here? It's hard to really fathom the magnitude of that question, and the countless number of different interpretations and conclusions that exist. I agree that there are more than enough corrupt people in this world, and the average persons agenda usually revolves around placing themselves above others within the society (most of the time because it gives one the feeling of accomplishment that they need to survive and continue to excel in whatever they do) but that is just human nature. Nothing feels better than sense of success that follows some sort of accomplishment from putting work into a field that interests you. I also agree that a lot of people can use and abuse the ideas and fundamentals in their religion to gain this feeling of self gratification. I'm going to stop here. Sorry for the book, I can go on and on about this shit all day. |
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